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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 649

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for the 21st of march 2021

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richard saunders coming to you from

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underwater

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well that's what it's like here in

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sydney australia we've been having

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rain followed by storms and flooding and

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rain

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record

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the introduction to this week's episode

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yes sydney australia and a lot of the

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coast of new south wales

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is really copying the uh the wet weather

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flooding up and down and evacuations and

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all sorts of things going on and before

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we get into what's coming up on this

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week's show i'm going to

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tell you of a story on the abc

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abc.net.u webpage which i shall link to

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in this week's show notes

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and it features our very own raw skeptic

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heidi robinson

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the article is called the v word

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it's by bridget judd and i will read a

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little bit to you

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right now the v word mullan bimby

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has long been defined by its live and

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let

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live ethos but for those left to grapple

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with the reality of lagging vaccination

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rates

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this isn't a game of semantics it's life

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and death

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take a trip up the brunswick valley

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where the tiny town of mullenbibi sits

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under the shadows of mount chin kogan

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and there's one topic that's met with a

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pause

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quote around here vaccines are like

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politics or religion

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and quote says local heidi robinson

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quote you just don't bring it up

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in conversation end quote with childhood

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immunization rates in northern new south

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wales among the lowest in the country

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this reticence is unsurprising a hotbed

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for

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alternative medicine the laid-back

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community has long been defined by its

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live and let live ethos and with it

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comes a familiar phrase quote

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we're not anti-vaxx we're just

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pro-choice end quote and i will leave

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you to

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visit that page and read the rest of the

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article for yourself well done heidi

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congratulations for being part of this

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important report i encourage you to have

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a look at that again the link

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in this week's show notes but what's

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coming up on the rest of today's show

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we're going to start with a report by

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our new correspondent adrian hill in

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canada about the great australian

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prediction project

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the great australian psychic prediction

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project which has been going on for

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years now

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slowly drawing to its conclusion it's a

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massive undertaking

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and you can find out more about that at

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the top of the show with

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adrian hill you can count on adrian

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following that it's part two of

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maynard's interview with dr brad mackay

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and this week brad looks at conspiracy

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theories

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covert virus is it a fake pete evans

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again

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and social media action and don't forget

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you can check out dr brad's new book

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fake medicine

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link in this week's show notes and to

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round off the show once again we head to

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trove the trove archive

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this week looking for references to the

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late dr

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carl sagan and the ones i'm

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concentrating on

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there are many references as you can

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imagine but the ones i'm more or less

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concentrating on this week

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are to do with the viking mars lander

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way back in 1976.

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well generally for those people in other

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countries the situation here in

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australia is improving we have

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uh the odd breakout of curved 19 here

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and there

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but uh i think it's safe to say

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it's uh pretty much under control

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of course that doesn't mean we let our

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guard down but won't it be nice to get

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back to uh

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our normal lives hopefully this year

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later on this year i miss things like

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exploring going to new areas walking

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along

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uh interesting bush or forest

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tracks down to waterfalls which is

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always nice

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discovering new lighthouses by the coast

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that sort of thing good times with good

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people

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but with that in mind now it's time for

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me to run downstairs

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and have a leftover from dinner last

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night which was a jalapeno

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and cheese sausage yum yum while i do

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that i hope you enjoy

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[Music]

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you can count on adrian with

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hi everyone recently i wrote my first

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report

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for the skeptic the journal from

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australian skeptics

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it's about the great australian psychic

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prediction project

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something i've been involved with since

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mid 2020

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anyway editor tim mendem decided to make

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this report the feature

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article in the latest issue of the

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magazine

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you can read this report for yourself as

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it's available for download

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at www.skeptics.com.a you

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or you can listen to it right now as i

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and richard saunders read it to you

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[Music]

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i am going to relate the pleasures and

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preoccupations on pondering the spurious

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predictions

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of psychics called not

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since last june 2020 when susan gerbic

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from gsow gorilla skepticism on

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wikipedia

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started a weekly trivia game online i

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have been getting

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to know richard saunders who also takes

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part

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quite well as from time to time we've

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been on the same virtual team

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in july we also watched nexus

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the northeast conference on science and

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skepticism

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together along with susan gerbic and

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others in her extensive web of

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connections

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at one of the trivia games richard

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announced he was looking for people to

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help him on his

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great australian psychic prediction

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project

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of course i was very familiar with his

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podcast voice

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and while the chance to work with

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richard was a bit daunting

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i was excited to join the project for

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two reasons

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i was in awe of working with the man

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behind the skeptic's own podcast

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and i did not know much about the

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psychic world

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my previous belief was that others did

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not truly believe in psychics

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didn't people notice the for

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entertainment purposes only

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disclaimers usually added to the

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television shows

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didn't they know that some psychics are

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just really good at reading people

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mentalists under another name i had lots

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of friends who had visited various types

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of psychics

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t readers to mediums but they did not

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seem to take it too seriously

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susan gerbic opened my eyes to the harm

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that psychics can cause

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when i attended her workshop at cycon

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hosted by the committee for skeptical

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inquiry

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in 2018 being a recent member

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of susan gerbeck's gsow team i learned

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about the various things she and her

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team had been involved in

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with this new understanding of the

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potential damage that psychics can bring

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to people emotionally and financially

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i look forward to the opportunity of

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helping with richard's project

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as search begins we meet via zoom

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video conferencing every tuesday

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canadian time

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if possible and the group size has

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ranged from three to seven people

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richard gives us a prediction and a year

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then

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we all set about searching the internet

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to find out if the prediction came true

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since the psychics are australian we

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have learned much about australian

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politics scandals celebrities

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natural disasters real estate trends

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sports and weather patterns

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world events creep in occasionally

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especially regarding u.s politics trump

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and celebrities jennifer aniston

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we commonly groan when richard brings up

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yet another celebrity prediction

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we have gotten to know nicole kidman

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keith urban

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and kylie and danny minogue just to name

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a few

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very well we cheer when we get a natural

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disaster prediction because the group

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finds weather patterns volcanoes and

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earthquakes

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or as richard types them unintentionally

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earthquakes

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much more interesting rob palmer

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who writes for skeptical enquirer under

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the pen name

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of the well-known skeptic was very upset

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when we thought we had investigated the

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last natural disaster

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but richard was kind and found more for

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us to examine

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one of his habits is to somehow find

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more predictions

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just when we think we are nearing the

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end even with natural disasters

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the psychics managed to disappoint with

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such expected predictions as

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there will be an earthquake in

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california in june

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or there will be a record low

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temperature in canada or russia

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our favorite to date a volcano

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might erupt predicted by julie ware

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for 2010 while debating

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how to categorize the prediction sea

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levels increase for queensland and parts

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of new south wales

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causing damage to coastlines written by

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carrie irwin for 2015.

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as too vague or incorrect kelly burke

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explained can't we just make a new

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category called this prediction is

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stupid

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causing gales of laughter the weird

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and wonderful we have seen the same

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types of predictions repeated

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year after year the psychics seem to be

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trying to capitalize on the advancing

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age of the queen and prince philip

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predicting a death in the royal family

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many times over the last 20 years

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i foresee that within the next 10 years

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they will finally get it right and say

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see i am amazing and it is worth paying

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me money

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there is much laughter in our sessions

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the predictions not surprisingly

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often are very vague or as richard puts

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it

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they are nothing but waffle they are so

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wuffly

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that sometimes they have canadian maple

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syrup on them

287
00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:16,399
that's my canadian spin on the

288
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:17,920
expression

289
00:11:21,910 --> 00:11:19,760
a fully formed prediction cannot be

290
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:21,920
found causing us to shake our heads and

291
00:11:27,910 --> 00:11:24,800
move quickly to the next one

292
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:27,920
newlyweds penelope cruz and javier

293
00:11:30,949 --> 00:11:28,720
bartom

294
00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:30,959
have a great chart together she's a

295
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:32,880
taurus and he's a pisces

296
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:35,519
which is a good match for a start but

297
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:36,720
more importantly

298
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:40,320
his son his self is on her jupiter

299
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:43,519
her feel good planet so they can always

300
00:11:47,590 --> 00:11:44,959
cheer each other up

301
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:47,600
plus her loving venus opposes his

302
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:48,399
passionate

303
00:11:53,829 --> 00:11:52,000
pluto so the romantic sparks fly

304
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:53,839
they have a better chance of going the

305
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:56,320
distance than many star couples

306
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:01,600
predicted by yasmine boland for 2010

307
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:04,079
and overall there's going to be some

308
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:06,160
wonderful features from mother earth

309
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:07,600
across the stock market

310
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:10,240
as well as some beautiful tv shows

311
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:11,040
prediction

312
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:15,279
by maria alita for 2007

313
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:17,120
those of us from north america have

314
00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:19,040
increased our vocabulary with such

315
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:22,240
gems as taking the piss or yanking your

316
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:23,120
chain

317
00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:26,399
cyclone or hurricane and top end

318
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:29,680
the north of australia as in miss

319
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,399
godfrey

320
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:32,800
also predicted a big year of top-end

321
00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:33,839
cyclones

322
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:38,240
predicted by tracy godfrey for 2003.

323
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:40,959
the us and canada crew were completely

324
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:42,880
confused when we read

325
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:45,680
with clucky venus growing even brighter

326
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:47,040
over the next few years

327
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:49,360
there's no doubt family expansion is the

328
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:50,880
name of the game

329
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:53,920
predicted by jenny bloom for 2011

330
00:12:59,030 --> 00:12:57,600
regarding penelope cruz our responses

331
00:13:02,230 --> 00:12:59,040
range from

332
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:02,240
how can venus clock to did venus grow

333
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:02,959
wings

334
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:05,360
but we soon learned that in australia it

335
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:07,519
means venus wants to have a child

336
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:10,000
the clucky jokes have not ended and some

337
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:11,120
have declared

338
00:13:15,030 --> 00:13:12,959
that they want to try to use the word at

339
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:15,040
least once every day

340
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:16,720
some of the predictions contradict

341
00:13:20,790 --> 00:13:18,079
themselves to ensure

342
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:20,800
they will come true a star will get

343
00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:22,000
pregnant or not

344
00:13:26,150 --> 00:13:24,000
get a divorce or not will be happy or

345
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:26,160
not and sometimes they are both

346
00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:28,560
contradictory and nonsensical

347
00:13:34,629 --> 00:13:31,760
in my mind last night i was seeing fire

348
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:34,639
like an explosion but it isn't really an

349
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:35,600
explosion

350
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:38,079
it's got to be something to do with some

351
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:39,120
sort of atomic

352
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:42,720
kind of explosion prediction by simon

353
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:43,440
turnbull

354
00:13:51,269 --> 00:13:48,320
for 2010 the biggest laughs came from

355
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:51,279
75 percent of babies born in 2010 will

356
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:52,079
be female

357
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:55,680
predicted by michael armstrong for 2010

358
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:58,160
and donald trump will make a good

359
00:14:01,350 --> 00:13:58,800
president

360
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:01,360
and his cabinet will be the best the u.s

361
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:02,880
has seen for years

362
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:07,680
predicted by milton black for 2017

363
00:14:13,509 --> 00:14:11,199
fun and not so fun our group

364
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:13,519
can easily and happily get distracted

365
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:15,040
usually by richard's cats

366
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:17,199
that like to walk on the keyboard knock

367
00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:18,160
his camera

368
00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:19,920
get our attention by being cute in the

369
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,839
laundry basket or demand richard play

370
00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:23,680
with them by throwing a toy repeatedly

371
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,040
down the stairs

372
00:14:29,829 --> 00:14:27,600
or by wendy hughes's dog and my dog

373
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:29,839
barking at each other over zoom

374
00:14:33,910 --> 00:14:32,079
international pet communication that

375
00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:33,920
hurts richard's ears

376
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:35,920
the past few weeks the distractions have

377
00:14:38,949 --> 00:14:37,519
been mostly about the happenings at the

378
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,959
u.s capitol

379
00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:40,560
the psychic prediction project has a

380
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,000
facebook messenger group

381
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:44,720
and on january 6 at around 10 a.m

382
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:45,680
mountain time

383
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:49,120
and 4 a.m sydney time susan gerbic

384
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:51,760
accidentally posteriorly dialed the

385
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:52,880
group

386
00:14:59,269 --> 00:14:56,320
leonard tremmel wendy hughes rob palmer

387
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:59,279
kelly burke michelle bickersma richard

388
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:00,079
sanders

389
00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:03,360
and i all answered the call rob at the

390
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:03,760
time

391
00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:05,760
was watching the ceremonial counting of

392
00:15:10,069 --> 00:15:07,839
the electoral votes at the capitol

393
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:10,079
so he pointed his camera at the tv

394
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:12,480
screen and we watched

395
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,399
i found this very interesting since in

396
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:16,720
canada our electoral process is quite

397
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:18,560
different and having some handy u.s

398
00:15:22,550 --> 00:15:19,760
citizens explain

399
00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:22,560
things to me was highly educational we

400
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:24,720
did not expect to see the turmoil that

401
00:15:28,949 --> 00:15:25,519
happened

402
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,959
that day live together

403
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:30,880
we witnessed the confusion when all

404
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:32,959
talking stopped and we heard the words

405
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:36,000
we are in lockdown our group watched in

406
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:36,480
horror

407
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:38,160
chilling moments such as guards with

408
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:39,680
guns drawn and

409
00:15:44,470 --> 00:15:42,320
pointing at the faces in the door people

410
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:44,480
climbing up the facade of the building

411
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:47,279
and the destruction of media equipment

412
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:49,279
isn't it amazing that this event

413
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,000
is nowhere to be found in the ponderings

414
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,000
of those who claim to be able to predict

415
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:56,560
the future the psychic prediction

416
00:15:58,949 --> 00:15:57,120
project

417
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:58,959
has turned from a team helping richard

418
00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:00,240
saunders research

419
00:16:03,670 --> 00:16:02,240
into a group of friends who talk to each

420
00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:03,680
other on a regular basis

421
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:06,320
outside of the project i have learned so

422
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:07,279
much from this crew

423
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:08,880
and i am grateful that they have

424
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,040
welcomed me into their world

425
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,519
i am almost hopeful that richard keeps

426
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:15,360
finding more predictions

427
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,120
as long as they are natural disasters

428
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:21,120
the great australian psychic prediction

429
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:23,680
project team i have worked with to date

430
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:26,639
are michelle bickersma rob palmer

431
00:16:31,749 --> 00:16:28,240
leonard tremel

432
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:31,759
paula lauterbach louis hillman

433
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:35,360
wendy hughes dr angie mattke kelly burke

434
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:38,240
and of course susan gerbic and richard

435
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:46,550
richard's addendum i still didn't see it

436
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:47,759
coming

437
00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:50,320
at a short talk during the 2018

438
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:52,639
australian skeptics convention

439
00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:54,720
i updated the audience as to the

440
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,800
progress of the great australian psychic

441
00:17:00,710 --> 00:16:58,399
prediction project

442
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:00,720
long time readers may detect a theme

443
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:02,560
here with the use of the word

444
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:06,079
great as in the great water divining dvd

445
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:07,760
and the great skeptic

446
00:17:13,350 --> 00:17:11,520
cd of years past the aim was to assess

447
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:13,360
every psychic prediction published in

448
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:14,240
australia since

449
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:17,600
2000 the sort of stuff you see in

450
00:17:21,909 --> 00:17:18,640
columns of

451
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:21,919
psychic predictions for 2001.

452
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:24,319
i predicted with confidence that the

453
00:17:28,390 --> 00:17:25,360
whole affair

454
00:17:31,750 --> 00:17:28,400
would be finished by the end of 2019

455
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,760
and the results published alas like most

456
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:33,200
of the predictions

457
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:36,320
that was wrong however at long last the

458
00:17:39,350 --> 00:17:36,720
end

459
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:39,360
is in sight as i have had enormous help

460
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:40,799
from a small but

461
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:44,160
dedicated team over much of 2020 and

462
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:47,840
that 2020 is indeed the cut-off year

463
00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:51,120
that means no predictions made for 2021

464
00:17:56,510 --> 00:17:53,760
and beyond will be considered as of

465
00:17:59,470 --> 00:17:56,520
writing the project contains

466
00:18:03,110 --> 00:17:59,480
3224 predictions with around

467
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:03,120
650 yet to analyze

468
00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:04,880
and as an aside i can update that

469
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:06,320
slightly because of the progress we're

470
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:07,120
making

471
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:10,640
i think we're around the 400

472
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:13,840
mark 400 predictions yet to analyze

473
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:15,520
let's read on

474
00:18:20,710 --> 00:18:18,720
being an australian project i think we

475
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:20,720
might glance at some of the predictions

476
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,720
concerning a matter of vital importance

477
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:24,000
to australians

478
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:26,080
and what can be more important than the

479
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:27,520
melbourne cup

480
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:29,280
for non-australians that's australia's

481
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:31,280
highest profile horse race

482
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,559
now this is not so tongue-in-cheek as

483
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:36,720
you may think for a number of reasons

484
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:40,559
first this topic like any in the project

485
00:18:43,750 --> 00:18:43,280
has the opportunity to show us that

486
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:43,760
there

487
00:18:48,549 --> 00:18:46,960
are indeed some people who can peer into

488
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:48,559
the future

489
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:50,880
second we are forced to consider what

490
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:51,919
this would mean

491
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:54,880
in the case of horse racing like any

492
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:56,080
sporting event

493
00:19:02,310 --> 00:18:59,280
the heart of racing is in the training

494
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:02,320
the skill in this case the jockey the

495
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:04,799
financial backing and so on

496
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:07,840
it is also the great unknown of how

497
00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:10,880
any particular race will play out the

498
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:12,640
excitement of jumping up and down

499
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:15,919
hoping and willing your horse to win now

500
00:19:21,270 --> 00:19:19,520
imagine if the result was simply known

501
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:21,280
before the starter's gun was

502
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:24,720
fired even if the result was known

503
00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:27,600
five times out of ten there would be no

504
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:29,039
horse racing

505
00:19:34,669 --> 00:19:32,400
maybe a good thing as at its core

506
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,679
it needs each race to have

507
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:36,240
unpredictability

508
00:19:39,669 --> 00:19:38,960
with everyone backing the same horse to

509
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:39,679
win

510
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:41,760
the industry behind racing would

511
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:42,799
collapse

512
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:45,919
still let's give our sears a chance

513
00:19:49,110 --> 00:19:48,240
and examine the results of 20 years of

514
00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:49,120
predictions

515
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:52,400
for the melbourne cup to date we have 55

516
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:53,440
predictions

517
00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:56,559
made from 2000 to 2020 with

518
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:00,400
10 being marked correct although it's

519
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:02,400
true that some have predicted the

520
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:03,840
winning horse

521
00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:07,039
five times some of the other predictions

522
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:08,080
marked correct

523
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:11,200
are for example melbourne cup with the

524
00:20:14,549 --> 00:20:12,320
moon in gemini

525
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:14,559
on the day the horse that wins this

526
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:16,720
year's cup is predicted to be a

527
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:18,720
medium-high gilding with overseas

528
00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:19,520
breeding

529
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:21,520
or it could be trained some distance

530
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:24,080
from melbourne and has traveled far

531
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:27,919
to the race milton black 2006

532
00:20:32,470 --> 00:20:31,760
or i feel like it's not gay waterhouse's

533
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:32,480
year

534
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:35,600
it is a male trainer melbourne cup jen

535
00:20:40,149 --> 00:20:36,640
makai

536
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:40,159
2008 are we being

537
00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:43,440
too generous to mark these as correct as

538
00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:43,840
we

539
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:47,280
would if they had named the actual horse

540
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:50,159
regardless the overall results are not

541
00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:51,280
great for those who

542
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:54,320
claim to see into the future and from

543
00:20:59,750 --> 00:20:56,799
what we have gathered so far

544
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:59,760
i wouldn't be placing any bets based on

545
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:01,120
their mystical

546
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:08,870
remember you can download this report

547
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:09,760
and much more

548
00:21:16,660 --> 00:21:14,799
from www.skeptics.com.a you

549
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:16,670
bye for now

550
00:21:33,270 --> 00:21:32,470
hey adrian hi susan out for some

551
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:33,280
shopping eh

552
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:35,440
yep i'm stocking up on this imitation

553
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:37,120
maple syrup from australia

554
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:40,159
imitation imitation

555
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:42,799
no no no no you need to buy the real

556
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:43,200
thing

557
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:46,240
from canada but i saw the tv commercial

558
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:48,240
and it said that noted pancake eating

559
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:49,919
expert richard saunders says it's the

560
00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:51,760
best maple syrup money can buy

561
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:53,440
and sixty percent of people preferred in

562
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:54,880
a blind taste test

563
00:21:58,710 --> 00:21:57,760
everyone knows it's the best oh come on

564
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,720
susan

565
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,960
you know better than that that's the

566
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:02,559
argument from authority

567
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:05,760
it is or is it the argument from

568
00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:09,360
popularity hmm it might be another

569
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:11,360
logical fallacy i'm not sure

570
00:22:20,149 --> 00:22:13,120
really if only we had a way of finding

571
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:23,669
hello everyone oh my it's the skeptical

572
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:25,919
fairy godmother angel from the internet

573
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,400
yes

574
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:28,880
that's right but how did you know who i

575
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:29,520
am

576
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:32,799
i listened to the skeptic zone podcast

577
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:35,200
also didn't you used to be the tooth

578
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:35,840
fairy

579
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:40,720
oh yes i remember you

580
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:43,760
i'll never forget your left upper

581
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:45,520
lateral incisor

582
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:49,760
would you like it back no it's okay

583
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:51,760
you keep it hey skeptical fairy

584
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:53,360
godmother angel what are you doing here

585
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:54,720
in the supermarket

586
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:57,039
i've come to tell you that you can find

587
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:57,760
out about

588
00:23:00,870 --> 00:22:59,919
40 different logical fallacies on

589
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:00,880
youtube

590
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:04,960
in one handy location listen to each one

591
00:23:08,149 --> 00:23:05,600
to hear an

592
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:08,159
explanation and examples of how they

593
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:15,390
just go to tinyurl.com

594
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,400
logicalzone and you'll find all the

595
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:20,480
logical fallacies with michelle

596
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:21,600
bickersmart

597
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:24,000
with handy time codes to get to the

598
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:25,440
exact one you want

599
00:23:30,990 --> 00:23:28,480
who is michelle biggesmar oh just a

600
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:31,000
friend of mine

601
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:34,400
tinyurl.com logicalzone

602
00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:36,320
thank you skeptical fairy godmother

603
00:23:41,350 --> 00:23:39,039
angel i guess you'll disappear in a puff

604
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:41,360
of smoke and thunder now eh

605
00:23:46,310 --> 00:23:44,880
um not quite yet i have a bit of

606
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:46,320
shopping to do

607
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:50,080
susan yes where do i find the

608
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:53,279
australian maple syrup

609
00:23:57,590 --> 00:23:56,080
what no no no come with me so-called

610
00:24:09,990 --> 00:23:57,600
skeptical fairy

611
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:14,070
here's maynard's spooky action

612
00:24:20,230 --> 00:24:18,960
at a distance and we're back with dr

613
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:20,240
ramon kai talking about

614
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:22,880
his book fake medicine and it's even got

615
00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:25,520
its own tinfoil hat on the front cover

616
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:27,840
yeah so i've got a special tin foil

617
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:29,679
cover to uh to go over the book just for

618
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:30,559
you maynard

619
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:32,080
yeah look actually i'm looking here like

620
00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:33,120
most of the books i've got on the

621
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:35,039
conspiracy theory about the jfk

622
00:24:38,549 --> 00:24:37,279
assassination run for about 800 pages

623
00:24:39,669 --> 00:24:38,559
but considering you've got the entire

624
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:39,679
history of fake medicine you've been

625
00:24:43,269 --> 00:24:41,279
able to knock it over in under 300. how

626
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:43,279
do you do that

627
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:44,480
well the last part of the book is

628
00:24:49,110 --> 00:24:47,200
looking at a lot of conspiracy theories

629
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:49,120
and looking at how to sort of fix the

630
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:51,279
future of what skeptics can do

631
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:52,799
as we're looking forward and trying to

632
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:54,720
combat misinformation have you got a

633
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:57,200
favorite a favorite conspiracy theory

634
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:58,400
there's a couple i've been introduced

635
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:59,679
lately because i've been listening to

636
00:25:01,830 --> 00:25:00,480
and look i

637
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:01,840
skeptics will throw their pencils on the

638
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:02,960
floor if they go there but it's called

639
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:05,200
the endless plane it's the flat earth

640
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:08,080
radio network so there's another flat

641
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:09,840
earth radio network may know it's a

642
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:11,520
group of people who believe

643
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:13,600
in the flat earth that we live on a flat

644
00:25:15,909 --> 00:25:15,200
plain and there's a number of them over

645
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:15,919
the days that

646
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:18,080
do the show and this guy i was listening

647
00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:19,039
to he was

648
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:21,760
explaining the great uh the great toucan

649
00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:23,200
hoax he does not believe there's such a

650
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:24,880
thing as a toucan he also does not

651
00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:25,840
believe that there's not

652
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:28,240
as much warfare has occurred in history

653
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,000
as we're told in the history books

654
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:32,480
and he also thinks that the moon looks

655
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:33,919
more like a

656
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:36,720
mud puddle and that those can't possibly

657
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:38,559
be impact craters this is the kind of

658
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:40,240
thing i'm falling asleep to at night and

659
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:42,080
going it's like taking my brain on an

660
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:43,520
excursion it's like dreaming

661
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:45,440
before i actually dream well there are

662
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:46,720
some people who don't believe that

663
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:47,919
australia exists

664
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:50,960
yeah so yeah so toucan is is nothing in

665
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:52,400
comparison so where they think all those

666
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:53,760
dancers in las vegas from the thunder

667
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:55,360
from down under came from hey there

668
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:56,000
there's proof

669
00:25:58,950 --> 00:25:57,600
straight away but they must be american

670
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:58,960
everybody's american aren't they that's

671
00:26:02,230 --> 00:26:00,159
true they are doing that

672
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:02,240
oh yeah oh yeah so what's what's the one

673
00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:03,360
conspiracy

674
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:04,880
either intrigues you you find a little

675
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,400
bit kind of funny and interesting

676
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:07,919
i mean the two the great toucan

677
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:10,080
conspiracy is interesting to me because

678
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:12,960
why would you fake being a toucan um why

679
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:13,600
not

680
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:15,440
why why is the toucan the bird that's

681
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:16,799
fake it's a very

682
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:19,279
random choice i'm sure a platypus is

683
00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:20,080
fake as well

684
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,880
so there are many other things i suppose

685
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:24,400
one of the one of the things that i find

686
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:25,120
fascinating

687
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:27,520
is that um i still have conversations

688
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:28,559
with my own mother

689
00:26:35,110 --> 00:26:31,840
about the coronavirus being a

690
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:35,120
creation from a chinese lab um around

691
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:36,159
wuhan and so

692
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:38,400
this is something that like we're having

693
00:26:42,149 --> 00:26:40,000
investigators going in

694
00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:42,159
um they haven't found any evidence of it

695
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:44,000
but my mother is still convinced

696
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:47,120
that it's definitely um a

697
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:49,760
chinese conspiracy she's certainly been

698
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:51,679
exposed to the world

699
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:54,960
um and many different cultures but it is

700
00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:58,320
it is weird and i think um i think

701
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:00,240
staying in your house and looking at

702
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:02,400
things online and being influenced by

703
00:27:06,070 --> 00:27:04,320
other people around you and and

704
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:06,080
the circle of influence that that you

705
00:27:10,070 --> 00:27:07,600
have um can be

706
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:10,080
feeding that in uh a lot of my my family

707
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:10,799
are from

708
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:13,279
sort of a christian background and so

709
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:14,799
i've sort of like seen

710
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,240
a lot of their information has been

711
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:18,240
coming from like friends

712
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:19,600
that are from their like christian

713
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,840
workplaces or from their church

714
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:23,600
um it seems to be propagating a lot of

715
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,600
these myths about

716
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:27,440
about vaccinations and also about how

717
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:28,880
how bad or how good

718
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:31,600
coronavirus could be for you well one of

719
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:32,960
the things that we're finding is a

720
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:34,080
skeptical community

721
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:36,159
and this is from like interviewing a few

722
00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:37,360
people around the place as well

723
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:40,480
is that there seems to be a strange

724
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:44,000
process from um from being vegetarian

725
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:46,880
to then being into whole foods um to

726
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:47,760
then becoming an

727
00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:50,399
anti-vaxxer to then believing in more

728
00:27:54,789 --> 00:27:51,840
conspiracy theories

729
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:54,799
and then becoming a neo-nazi so there's

730
00:27:58,389 --> 00:27:56,399
this really weird

731
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:58,399
progression that's a pretty amazing

732
00:28:01,830 --> 00:27:59,679
looking flow chart

733
00:28:03,669 --> 00:28:01,840
starts with a lot of people and then a

734
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:03,679
few very dangerous ones

735
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:06,880
so some of the the yeah i'm saying it a

736
00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:08,399
bit a little bit in jest

737
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:10,880
but some of the some people do do get

738
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:12,320
online and they're looking at youtube

739
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:14,159
videos they're sort of like starting to

740
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:14,720
look at

741
00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:17,039
um yeah like where the vaccines are real

742
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:17,840
and then

743
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:20,159
the algorithms are sort of designed to

744
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:22,080
become a little bit more extreme

745
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:24,559
as time goes on so you can start sort of

746
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:25,840
very innocently

747
00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:27,679
looking at youtube videos about

748
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:29,600
coronavirus vaccinations and then if

749
00:28:32,549 --> 00:28:30,640
you're thinking

750
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:32,559
that a conspiracy theory could have

751
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:34,399
value and then start to click on more of

752
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:35,279
those links

753
00:28:39,990 --> 00:28:38,240
then you do go down these rabbit holes

754
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:40,000
that the conspiracy theorists

755
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:42,480
talk about and so often it will become

756
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:43,039
more

757
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:46,080
right wing in views a lot of um

758
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:48,640
trump supporters for example um were

759
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:49,360
sort of more

760
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:51,919
against wearing masks and and thinking

761
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:54,240
that it's more of a conspiracy theory

762
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:56,640
and so yeah one of the examples recently

763
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:58,720
was was pete evans as well so

764
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:01,360
he he was definitely a trump supporter

765
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:03,520
um it was wearing his make america great

766
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:04,399
again cap

767
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:06,480
very well known for that um and then

768
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:07,679
over time he

769
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:10,159
then put up a cartoon which was like

770
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:11,520
using neo-nazi

771
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:14,559
symbolism and so so that like i i

772
00:29:17,909 --> 00:29:17,600
i'm pretty sure he's not a nazi but um

773
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:17,919
so

774
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:21,120
is certainly in

775
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:23,360
in the background and i i am worried

776
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,440
about um how people can be following

777
00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:26,960
these algorithms thinking that they're

778
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:28,559
doing their own research

779
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:31,520
but that they the algorithm the the ai

780
00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:33,279
the artificial intelligence is leading

781
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:34,559
them in a certain direction that they

782
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:36,080
may not be aware of

783
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:39,520
oh well quite clearly um the covert 19

784
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:40,080
variant

785
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:41,360
i believe came from northgate in

786
00:29:45,029 --> 00:29:43,360
melbourne i think some hipster was doing

787
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:45,039
coffee bean experimentation

788
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:46,559
with a bat because you know the cat can

789
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:47,840
eat the coffee bean and poo it out and

790
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:48,960
you put that in the coffee

791
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:50,399
someone was doing that with a bat the

792
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:52,320
whole thing went wrong a hipster from

793
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:53,039
northgate

794
00:29:57,029 --> 00:29:54,799
i'm blaming it all on that guy well you

795
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:57,039
need to set up your own youtube channel

796
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:59,600
and and get into that algorithm because

797
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:00,799
you'll get lots of hits

798
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:03,440
um a lot of them from um from right-wing

799
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:04,480
trump supporters

800
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:05,600
do you think they're actually doing

801
00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:08,000
enough on instagram and twitter

802
00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:10,480
facebook and youtube to try and damp

803
00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:11,520
this down because

804
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:12,960
there's always that oh i should be able

805
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:15,200
to have my expression versus the public

806
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:16,960
good of disinformation how do you think

807
00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:18,480
they should balance that

808
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:21,039
i think we've been calling out for a lot

809
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:24,320
more scientists to be on instagram

810
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,760
and um and like on tiktok

811
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:29,520
putting out their videos and i think a

812
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:31,200
lot of people have been really worried

813
00:30:34,549 --> 00:30:32,559
that scientists

814
00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:34,559
have been really boring and that if

815
00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:36,960
they're getting on tick-tock

816
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,240
we need more hot ones is that what the

817
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:40,480
thing is no i've been seeing a lot of

818
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:41,440
like really

819
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:43,919
funny people like it like putting across

820
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:44,799
their points

821
00:30:49,510 --> 00:30:47,120
very very well on tiktok and instagram

822
00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:49,520
um and putting it in a very easy to

823
00:30:51,990 --> 00:30:50,240
understand

824
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:52,000
way this is what we're talking earlier

825
00:30:54,870 --> 00:30:54,080
on about like comedians getting up there

826
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:54,880
and and just

827
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:57,360
um yeah being very funny and being very

828
00:30:59,669 --> 00:30:58,000
pointed

829
00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:59,679
um being very critical of people who

830
00:31:03,509 --> 00:31:01,360
aren't thinking about science

831
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:03,519
i think you can do it very well but

832
00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:04,960
you've got to have

833
00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:07,600
an extra bit of of thought process so

834
00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:09,120
you just can't get up there and talk

835
00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:09,840
science

836
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:11,360
you're not going to be appealing to the

837
00:31:14,870 --> 00:31:13,679
crowd you've got to be a little bit sort

838
00:31:17,269 --> 00:31:14,880
of tongue-in-cheek

839
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:17,279
use very easy to understand language and

840
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:18,480
um and yeah

841
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:20,320
even follow crazes that are going on

842
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:22,080
online as well that you're familiar with

843
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:22,640
i'm sure

844
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:24,159
oh yeah i'm on the wall than there do

845
00:31:27,430 --> 00:31:25,760
remember the big two can conspiracy

846
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:27,440
people come on have you actually ever

847
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:28,640
have one your house

848
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:31,200
i'd love to but haven't hm yeah look

849
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:31,840
doctor brad

850
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:33,360
i think i might like come back next week

851
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:34,480
as well because i've been here twice and

852
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:35,440
i still haven't quite

853
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:36,640
quite got the patterns of everyone

854
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:38,000
coming and going so i can rob the house

855
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:39,200
when you're not here so can i come back

856
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:40,320
next week and have a chat

857
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:42,880
tea and tim tams or uh coffee and

858
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:44,880
cabernet look and if you just happen to

859
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:47,039
accidentally leave the prescription pad

860
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:49,279
on the kitchen counter and walk away

861
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,720
look that's just fine

862
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:52,080
i think i'll have you in handcuffs for

863
00:32:12,310 --> 00:31:54,080
the whole time you're in my house again

864
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:15,029
hi this is heidi robertson from the

865
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:17,760
northern rivers vaccination supporters

866
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,240
we are a group of concerned citizens

867
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:22,480
dedicated to promoting good science and

868
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:24,399
common sense in our region

869
00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:27,360
the far north coast of new south wales

870
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:28,159
this area

871
00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:30,000
famous for its natural beauty and

872
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:31,760
relaxed lifestyle

873
00:32:36,149 --> 00:32:34,399
also has the lowest rates of vaccination

874
00:32:38,549 --> 00:32:36,159
in australia

875
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:38,559
we are out to change that by challenging

876
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:40,640
the myths and misinformation

877
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:42,960
and by providing good evidence-based

878
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:45,519
information to the community

879
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:47,519
we'd love for you no matter where you

880
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:48,640
are in the world

881
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:51,600
to join our fight please visit our

882
00:32:56,430 --> 00:32:52,799
webpage

883
00:32:58,389 --> 00:32:56,440
at www.nrv

884
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:58,399
[Music]

885
00:33:01,590 --> 00:33:00,000
we also have a link there to our

886
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:01,600
facebook page

887
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:05,120
tweet us at nrvax supporters

888
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:08,399
that's vax and check us out on wikipedia

889
00:33:26,670 --> 00:33:10,799
by searching for northern rivers

890
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,470
[Music]

891
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:32,470
and now it's time once again to dive

892
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:33,600
into the pages

893
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,760
at trovetrove.nla.gov dot a

894
00:33:41,269 --> 00:33:39,840
the national library of australia

895
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:41,279
digitizing

896
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:43,919
thousands upon thousands of newspapers

897
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:44,480
articles

898
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:47,519
magazines journals diaries all sorts of

899
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:48,240
things

900
00:33:54,460 --> 00:33:52,080
for us to enjoy to trawl through to dive

901
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:54,470
into that treasure trove

902
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:55,760
[Music]

903
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:57,440
and this week i thought we'd look for

904
00:34:06,870 --> 00:33:58,799
references

905
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:06,880
to carl sagan

906
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:09,280
now certainly a big influence on my

907
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:12,000
skeptical career and no doubt

908
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:13,919
many of you listening out there can say

909
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:15,440
the same thing

910
00:34:20,790 --> 00:34:18,399
or at least an influence in some respect

911
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:20,800
now as you might suspect there are many

912
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:23,839
uh returns in the search criteria for dr

913
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:25,839
carl sagan or carl sagan

914
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,720
and here are a selected few and the

915
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:30,480
first one comes to us from the canberra

916
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:31,520
times

917
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:35,570
from the 22nd of july 1976.

918
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:40,240
[Music]

919
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:43,280
man search for life on mars by christine

920
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,240
russell in washington

921
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,800
carl sagan an astronomer with a strong

922
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:52,560
background in biology

923
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:54,399
is one of the most enthusiastic

924
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:56,399
proponents of the search for life on

925
00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:58,000
other planets

926
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:01,119
the author of the cosmic connection dr

927
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:03,280
sagan heads the cornell university's

928
00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:04,240
laboratory

929
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:07,680
for planetary studies and is currently

930
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:09,839
part of the team of scientists

931
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:13,040
directing the viking mission to mars he

932
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:14,400
is one of the few scientists

933
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:16,400
associated with the viking mission who

934
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:17,520
believes that there

935
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:20,320
might be microbes organisms large enough

936
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:21,119
to be seen

937
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:24,560
with the naked eye on mars in a recent

938
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:26,079
interview he said there was

939
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:29,280
no reason to exclude the possibility

940
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:32,480
it's kind of a failure of imagination he

941
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:33,440
said

942
00:35:37,190 --> 00:35:35,359
people are barely able to bring

943
00:35:39,990 --> 00:35:37,200
themselves to hypothesize

944
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:40,000
microbes on mars and so the idea of

945
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:41,760
large organisms big enough

946
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:44,880
to see sort of boggles the mind he said

947
00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:47,440
that because all life on earth used

948
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:50,480
in a very central way liquid water it

949
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:50,800
was

950
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:52,880
difficult to think of an alternative to

951
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:53,839
support life

952
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,720
practically on a place like mars so

953
00:36:01,349 --> 00:35:58,000
martian organisms

954
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:01,359
if they exist probably have a source of

955
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:02,240
water

956
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:05,040
he says but the martian environment is

957
00:36:09,589 --> 00:36:06,400
such that there is no

958
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:09,599
liquid water just sitting out of doors

959
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:12,320
because the total pressure is so low

960
00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:14,240
that the water immediately

961
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:17,200
evaporates and blows away the major

962
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:18,320
places where

963
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:21,839
water existed on mars were as ice and

964
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:24,640
chemically bound rocks and so that's the

965
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:26,240
reason we suggested

966
00:36:32,230 --> 00:36:29,359
that if there are martian organisms

967
00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:32,240
that they can tap ice or tap the

968
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:33,839
chemical bound water

969
00:36:38,150 --> 00:36:36,480
he said us what would be the next step

970
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:38,160
in space exploration

971
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,200
if life was detected on mars he said

972
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:43,920
i would say right back to mars and try

973
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:45,680
to understand that life

974
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:48,960
to a considerable extent because while

975
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,839
viking has the capability of

976
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:53,440
investigating that life

977
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,280
we certainly would want to know a great

978
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,680
deal about the details of it

979
00:37:00,790 --> 00:37:00,000
so that you could understand how similar

980
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:00,800
and how different

981
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:03,280
martian life was compared to terrestrial

982
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:04,320
life

983
00:37:07,750 --> 00:37:06,560
i am concerned that we should not be too

984
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:07,760
hasty in our

985
00:37:12,069 --> 00:37:10,160
ignorance about terrestrial life to

986
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:12,079
return samples to the earth

987
00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:14,720
and i think it makes a great deal more

988
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:15,599
sense

989
00:37:19,990 --> 00:37:17,599
to do more sophisticated and more

990
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,000
detailed investigations remotely

991
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:22,560
by automatic spacecraft on the martian

992
00:37:26,710 --> 00:37:23,200
surface

993
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:26,720
asked about the expense of the viking

994
00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:27,760
missions

995
00:37:35,190 --> 00:37:31,520
it has cost more than 1 000 million

996
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:35,200
american dollars about uh 800 million in

997
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:36,000
australian dollars

998
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:39,440
at the time he said one thing we can do

999
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:41,839
is compare it with other things that we

1000
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:43,200
spend money on

1001
00:37:47,270 --> 00:37:45,200
the total cost of viking is something

1002
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,280
like half the cost of one

1003
00:37:51,990 --> 00:37:50,240
trident nuclear submarine i would think

1004
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:52,000
that those financial arguments are

1005
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:53,680
arguments for viking

1006
00:38:00,790 --> 00:37:57,520
all they say is that the cost is trivial

1007
00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:00,800
for a society as wealthy as ours another

1008
00:38:05,990 --> 00:38:03,280
justification for the mission was

1009
00:38:07,750 --> 00:38:06,000
that it is important for any high

1010
00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:07,760
civilization to do

1011
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:10,960
acts of greatness he said viking will be

1012
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:11,680
remembered

1013
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:13,920
if it works for the rest of human

1014
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:15,440
history the first

1015
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:18,720
time us human beings have looked

1016
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:21,280
up close at mars and search for life on

1017
00:38:24,710 --> 00:38:22,320
another planet

1018
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:24,720
in addition there were very practical

1019
00:38:28,870 --> 00:38:26,800
reasons why missions like viking

1020
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,880
should be encouraged they provide a

1021
00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:30,560
sense of perspective on earthbound

1022
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:32,240
sciences like meteorology

1023
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,280
and geology and biology he said

1024
00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:37,440
i think it very likely that the

1025
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:38,800
adventures

1026
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:41,119
in fundamental science which come about

1027
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:42,960
of missions like viking

1028
00:38:47,349 --> 00:38:45,280
will improve many times over the

1029
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:47,359
impractical terrestrial method

1030
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:49,280
but finally there's the other sort of

1031
00:38:53,589 --> 00:38:51,599
perspective that's the perspective

1032
00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:53,599
of looking at other planets for a better

1033
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:54,960
appreciation

1034
00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:57,280
of our own and that's credited to the

1035
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:58,640
washington star

1036
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:01,040
through the australian associated press

1037
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:03,200
and following on from that the next

1038
00:39:09,270 --> 00:39:06,880
item we come across is also from 1976

1039
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:09,280
and it's from the papua new guinea post

1040
00:39:12,870 --> 00:39:10,320
courier

1041
00:39:14,069 --> 00:39:12,880
port moresby and this was published on

1042
00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:14,079
the 8th of october

1043
00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:17,440
1976 we had landed

1044
00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:20,960
we were on mars by dr carl sagan

1045
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:22,560
for the first time in the history of our

1046
00:39:26,390 --> 00:39:24,079
species mankind

1047
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:26,400
has a working scientific station on the

1048
00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:28,160
surface of another planet

1049
00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:31,280
this station is not occupied by human

1050
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,160
beings

1051
00:39:36,150 --> 00:39:34,320
that would have been far more difficult

1052
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:36,160
dangerous and expensive

1053
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:38,880
and perhaps even scientifically less

1054
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:40,000
productive

1055
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:43,040
instead there is a kind of intelligent

1056
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:45,119
machine brilliantly conceived and

1057
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:48,640
executed obedient capable of self-repair

1058
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:51,040
and controlled by a 350 million

1059
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,320
kilometer radio

1060
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:54,480
tether connecting it to the distant

1061
00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:55,359
planet earth

1062
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:58,480
it is able to see hear touch

1063
00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:01,359
feel taste smell and manipulate its

1064
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:02,160
environment

1065
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:05,280
it has two computer brains each with a

1066
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:08,880
18 000 word memory and of course i pause

1067
00:40:12,510 --> 00:40:09,200
here

1068
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:12,520
to just remind everybody this is

1069
00:40:17,430 --> 00:40:15,280
1976 technology or perhaps more

1070
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:17,440
accurately 1975.

1071
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:19,920
we read on this degree of machine

1072
00:40:22,950 --> 00:40:22,160
intelligence is required because on many

1073
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:22,960
matters

1074
00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:26,640
the station must decide for itself

1075
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:29,680
it is so far from earth that a

1076
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:32,400
simple radio inquiry and response takes

1077
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:33,680
40 minutes to travel

1078
00:40:38,069 --> 00:40:35,920
round trip between the station and its

1079
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:38,079
home planet the station is called viking

1080
00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:38,480
one

1081
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:40,960
its location is the great christ basin

1082
00:40:45,589 --> 00:40:43,040
in the northern hemisphere of

1083
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:45,599
planet mars the viking one lander was

1084
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:47,520
launched in tandem with viking one

1085
00:40:52,190 --> 00:40:50,400
orbiter from cape canaveral florida to

1086
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:52,200
mars on august 20th

1087
00:40:58,790 --> 00:40:55,280
1975. they made an epic

1088
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:58,800
11 month journey the long way around the

1089
00:41:01,750 --> 00:40:59,440
sun

1090
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:01,760
covering almost a thousand million

1091
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:02,640
kilometers

1092
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:05,200
before being ejected into orbit around

1093
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:06,240
the red planet

1094
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:09,680
on june 19th 1976 when the long and

1095
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:11,520
difficult search for a safe landing

1096
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:12,400
place began

1097
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:13,680
and i'll pause here to say that's

1098
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:15,599
interesting we're so used to missions to

1099
00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:17,280
mars now

1100
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:18,720
knowing where they're going to land and

1101
00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:20,240
getting there with a great degree of

1102
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:21,920
accuracy i didn't know that

1103
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,839
the viking one went to mars and then

1104
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:25,440
began to look for a place to land

1105
00:41:29,030 --> 00:41:28,000
but i guess it makes sense we read on

1106
00:41:31,109 --> 00:41:29,040
there were many

1107
00:41:32,150 --> 00:41:31,119
safety criteria which had to be

1108
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,160
satisfied

1109
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:34,160
the landing site elevation could not be

1110
00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:36,720
too high otherwise viking's parachute

1111
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:38,960
would not slow it down adequately during

1112
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:40,079
descent

1113
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,359
the winds must not be too high and they

1114
00:41:48,630 --> 00:41:45,920
are known to exceed 100 meters a second

1115
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:48,640
at certain times and places on mars

1116
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:50,079
otherwise the lander

1117
00:41:53,750 --> 00:41:52,560
would be blown over the landing site

1118
00:41:55,990 --> 00:41:53,760
must not be too

1119
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:56,000
rough otherwise the viking might fall

1120
00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:56,800
over

1121
00:42:02,790 --> 00:41:59,839
it must not be too soft otherwise viking

1122
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:02,800
would sink in it must not be too hard

1123
00:42:07,750 --> 00:42:05,520
otherwise the mechanical arm extended to

1124
00:42:08,990 --> 00:42:07,760
acquire samples of martian soil for

1125
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:09,000
chemical and

1126
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:11,680
microbiological analysis would return

1127
00:42:14,790 --> 00:42:12,400
empty

1128
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:14,800
from its attempt to scratch at the

1129
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:15,520
ground

1130
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:18,160
moreover the dangers of landing on mars

1131
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:20,640
were underscored by the failures to

1132
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:23,760
accomplish a successful landing by the

1133
00:42:27,109 --> 00:42:24,880
mars two

1134
00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:27,119
three and six missions of the soviet

1135
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:28,000
union

1136
00:42:32,150 --> 00:42:30,880
something of the surface roughness and

1137
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:32,160
hardness could be

1138
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:34,640
determined through ground-based radar

1139
00:42:39,750 --> 00:42:36,880
practically through the use of the great

1140
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:39,760
arecibo radio telescope in puerto rico

1141
00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:41,760
the largest radio radar telescope on

1142
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:43,119
earth information

1143
00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:46,560
on elevation had been obtained by the

1144
00:42:49,589 --> 00:42:47,200
earlier

1145
00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:49,599
mariner 9 mission to mars the first

1146
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:51,760
spacecraft to orbit another planet

1147
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:54,160
viking lander footpad number three the

1148
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:56,160
rivets in the footpad could be

1149
00:43:01,750 --> 00:43:00,240
seen clearly i was never so happy to see

1150
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:01,760
a rivet in my life

1151
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:04,960
we had landed successfully we were on

1152
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:06,000
another planet

1153
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:08,000
even at the present still relatively

1154
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:09,760
early stage in the viking mission

1155
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:11,760
the scientific returns can only be

1156
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:13,119
described

1157
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:17,520
as stunning and on the page we also see

1158
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:21,119
a drawing of the the viking lander

1159
00:43:25,270 --> 00:43:23,040
artist's impression of the scene

1160
00:43:26,069 --> 00:43:25,280
when the viking lander touched down on

1161
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,079
mars

1162
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:27,920
and there it is sitting on the planet

1163
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:29,440
and also

1164
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:32,880
on the page we have a little diagram

1165
00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:34,640
sort of showing the descent with the

1166
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:36,240
viking one leaving

1167
00:43:40,309 --> 00:43:39,040
the orbiter the parachute opening and

1168
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:40,319
finally the

1169
00:43:43,750 --> 00:43:42,640
land is sitting on mars with a little

1170
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:43,760
outline of

1171
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:46,560
where the antenna the camera and other

1172
00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:47,680
uh

1173
00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:51,280
apparatus are and finally we have

1174
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:54,640
a report here from december 26

1175
00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:58,800
1981 in the canberra times again

1176
00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:02,160
by malcolm miller a review cosmos by

1177
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:04,960
carl sagan so we have a book review

1178
00:44:07,990 --> 00:44:06,839
considerations of our place in the

1179
00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:08,000
cosmos

1180
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:09,599
and the page actually has a couple of

1181
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:11,680
book reviews but we pick up here where

1182
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:12,880
they talk about uh

1183
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:15,839
carl sagan's cosmos carl sagan has made

1184
00:44:20,230 --> 00:44:17,359
a television series

1185
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:20,240
which we haven't seen yet called cosmos

1186
00:44:24,150 --> 00:44:21,680
which out does and

1187
00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:24,160
all the rest of the nature science life

1188
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:25,760
popularizes

1189
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:28,560
the book of the series is quite as

1190
00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:29,520
exciting

1191
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:32,000
like most of sagan's work it shows his

1192
00:44:36,150 --> 00:44:32,640
great

1193
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:36,160
breadth of interests we would expect

1194
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:39,040
the astronomy to be exciting from

1195
00:44:43,030 --> 00:44:41,440
planetary probes to black holes and

1196
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:43,040
colliding galaxies

1197
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:46,240
and so it is sagan has an enthusiasm

1198
00:44:49,349 --> 00:44:47,040
which will

1199
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:49,359
surely carry along all but the most

1200
00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:51,440
boring killjoy

1201
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:54,160
but his thoughts on human history and

1202
00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:56,400
biology are equally entertaining

1203
00:45:00,390 --> 00:44:58,800
while this no doubt makes him unpopular

1204
00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,400
with many academics

1205
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:02,720
learning shouldn't be entertaining it

1206
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:05,040
also makes for a high level of

1207
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:08,240
attention to what he's saying we need

1208
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:10,560
more than ever to open our eyes and our

1209
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:12,160
minds to a wide

1210
00:45:16,630 --> 00:45:14,240
view of the universe people who don't

1211
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:16,640
comprehend the relationship of the atom

1212
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:19,920
or the dna molecule to human life can

1213
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:20,800
endanger

1214
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:23,599
all of us if they have political power

1215
00:45:27,030 --> 00:45:24,400
so can

1216
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:27,040
those who are so engrossed in what's

1217
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:27,599
happening

1218
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:30,880
now that they neither know nor

1219
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:33,520
care what happened in the past human

1220
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:34,160
life

1221
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:37,200
of individuals and societies has been

1222
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:39,760
wrecked too often by ignorant power

1223
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:40,640
seekers

1224
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:43,119
sagan tries to show us that the history

1225
00:45:48,550 --> 00:45:44,880
and evolution of life

1226
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:48,560
and of science of social industries and

1227
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:49,599
technology

1228
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:52,319
of molecules in space and molecules in

1229
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:53,119
cells

1230
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:56,720
are all part of one whole modern man he

1231
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,440
believes

1232
00:46:01,670 --> 00:45:59,520
must comprehend this oneness and grow in

1233
00:46:02,710 --> 00:46:01,680
harmony with the universe of atoms and

1234
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:02,720
galaxies

1235
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:06,000
of which is part or else destroy himself

1236
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:08,240
full-scale nuclear war has never

1237
00:46:12,710 --> 00:46:09,359
happened but

1238
00:46:13,510 --> 00:46:12,720
we can experience it only once only if

1239
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:13,520
we gain a

1240
00:46:17,829 --> 00:46:16,400
cosmic perspective can we save ourselves

1241
00:46:20,790 --> 00:46:17,839
and enter the future

1242
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:20,800
sagan has not hesitated to use his time

1243
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:22,079
and his creativity

1244
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:24,560
to press this point of view and i

1245
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,960
enjoyed his presentation of it here

1246
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:28,720
the conquest of space and the

1247
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:30,240
relationship of humanity

1248
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:33,440
to the universe are themes of these two

1249
00:46:37,349 --> 00:46:34,720
books

1250
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:37,359
of course we pause here to mention once

1251
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:38,880
again that the page has

1252
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:42,160
two book reviews on it i recommend them

1253
00:46:57,180 --> 00:46:44,720
to anyone who believes that our species

1254
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,190
has a place in the cosmos

1255
00:47:03,190 --> 00:46:59,920
[Music]

1256
00:47:05,950 --> 00:47:03,200
and once again all of those uh

1257
00:47:07,589 --> 00:47:05,960
items come from trove at

1258
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:07,599
trove.nla.gov.iu you can

1259
00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:10,720
go there type in the words carl sagan

1260
00:47:17,829 --> 00:47:15,359
and see many more entries and

1261
00:47:25,420 --> 00:47:17,839
items and reports about the late great

1262
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:25,430
dr carl sagan

1263
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:38,630
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1264
00:47:44,069 --> 00:47:41,119
zone now before i go

1265
00:47:45,109 --> 00:47:44,079
i'm going to relay a little story to you

1266
00:47:47,589 --> 00:47:45,119
sit back

1267
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:47,599
have a cup of coffee put your slippers

1268
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:48,400
on

1269
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:51,359
a few days ago i was doing my shopping

1270
00:47:54,950 --> 00:47:52,000
standing there

1271
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:54,960
in the supermarket when a guy looked at

1272
00:48:08,630 --> 00:47:56,079
me

1273
00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:08,640
but to my surprise he walked up and said

1274
00:48:13,270 --> 00:48:11,440
uh i i notice you're wearing a skeptoid

1275
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:13,280
media shirt

1276
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:15,839
now you might think that i would

1277
00:48:19,990 --> 00:48:16,960
normally wear a

1278
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:20,000
skeptic zone t-shirt but no from time to

1279
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:20,400
time

1280
00:48:25,549 --> 00:48:23,040
i wear skeptoid media t-shirts given to

1281
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,559
me by my good friend brian dunning from

1282
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:27,760
skeptoid.com of course

1283
00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:30,480
anyway he walked up and said uh skeptoid

1284
00:48:34,150 --> 00:48:31,760
media so

1285
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:34,160
what what does skeptoid media's opinion

1286
00:48:37,589 --> 00:48:35,839
on the coronavirus

1287
00:48:39,589 --> 00:48:37,599
in other words he saw something with the

1288
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:39,599
word skeptic in it

1289
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:43,359
so i gave him my best answer which

1290
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:47,599
was well skeptoid media would say

1291
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:50,160
is real it's a pandemic killed thousands

1292
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:51,040
of people

1293
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:53,760
and there have been vaccines developed

1294
00:48:58,470 --> 00:48:55,839
he looked at me said

1295
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:58,480
you know what the cdc website says about

1296
00:49:03,030 --> 00:48:59,839
this

1297
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:03,040
i said okay what does it say and he said

1298
00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:06,720
it's only nine percent of people

1299
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:09,200
who died of covet 19 the rest die

1300
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,400
because they have other health

1301
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:12,000
conditions

1302
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:13,599
and i thought to myself that can't be

1303
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:15,200
right that's ridiculous

1304
00:49:19,190 --> 00:49:17,119
but i was in the position of not knowing

1305
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:19,200
i couldn't instantly

1306
00:49:22,790 --> 00:49:20,480
check what he was saying not in the

1307
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:22,800
middle of a supermarket and so i said

1308
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:24,480
well i'd need to check the website for

1309
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:24,800
that

1310
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:27,280
and he repeated it and then he repeated

1311
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:28,160
it again

1312
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:30,319
as if to say got you skeptic you don't

1313
00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:31,920
agree with what i agree with

1314
00:49:35,109 --> 00:49:33,440
you're obviously not a skeptic you're

1315
00:49:37,109 --> 00:49:35,119
wearing a skeptic shirt but since you

1316
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:37,119
think covert is real and

1317
00:49:40,230 --> 00:49:38,400
hundreds of thousands of people are

1318
00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:40,240
dying you're not a real skeptic

1319
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:42,240
i could just tell that was bubbling on

1320
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:43,520
in his head

1321
00:49:47,109 --> 00:49:46,079
anyway i cut it short because i knew

1322
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:47,119
there was no point

1323
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:49,119
he was obviously a conspiracy theorist

1324
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:50,160
so

1325
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:52,319
no need to waste my breath but you know

1326
00:49:55,510 --> 00:49:54,000
out of interest when i got home

1327
00:49:57,430 --> 00:49:55,520
and i have the page in front of me now

1328
00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:57,440
from the cdc where it says

1329
00:50:01,510 --> 00:50:00,160
death attributed to covert 19 on death

1330
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:01,520
certificates

1331
00:50:07,829 --> 00:50:04,960
an estimated 91

1332
00:50:10,470 --> 00:50:07,839
of these deaths covert 19 was listed as

1333
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:10,480
the underlying cause of death

1334
00:50:15,829 --> 00:50:13,520
in the remaining nine percent covert 19

1335
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:15,839
was listed as a contributing cause of

1336
00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:17,040
death

1337
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:20,079
so he had it completely backwards

1338
00:50:26,470 --> 00:50:23,280
completely wrong it's a pity i couldn't

1339
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:26,480
instantly call up this page on the spot

1340
00:50:30,309 --> 00:50:28,480
and point it out to him but that is not

1341
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:30,319
as easy as you might think because you

1342
00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:32,000
can't suddenly just jump onto a page and

1343
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:34,000
instantly get to the statistics you're

1344
00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:35,760
after in the middle of a supermarket

1345
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:38,800
on a on an iphone but there you go

1346
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:41,200
so i must wonder what he was thinking

1347
00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:42,400
that he would read

1348
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:45,920
data like that and completely reverse it

1349
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,800
in his head to support his conspiracy

1350
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,640
theory

1351
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:52,400
the interesting things that happen when

1352
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:54,400
you're wearing a skeptical shirt

1353
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:57,040
and it reminds me of two logical

1354
00:51:01,670 --> 00:50:58,720
fallacies as taught to us by michelle

1355
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:01,680
bickersma the no true scotsman

1356
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:04,400
where i can't really be a skeptic

1357
00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:05,280
because i'm not

1358
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:06,800
skeptical of the things that he's

1359
00:51:10,470 --> 00:51:08,720
skeptical of which is sort of also like

1360
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:10,480
the relative probation

1361
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:14,400
logical fallacy which is along the lines

1362
00:51:16,870 --> 00:51:15,280
of

1363
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:16,880
what i think is more important than what

1364
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:18,400
you think therefore what you think

1365
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:22,000
isn't a valid course of skepticism

1366
00:51:26,549 --> 00:51:24,480
you can find out about those logical

1367
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:26,559
fallacies by going to our new

1368
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:30,800
link which is tinyurl.com

1369
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:33,359
logicalzone all 40 of michelle

1370
00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:35,200
bickersmart's logical fallacies

1371
00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:37,280
are right there on youtube for you to

1372
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:40,559
enjoy and they're all time-coded

1373
00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:43,040
hello you want to be part of the skeptic

1374
00:51:46,470 --> 00:51:44,720
zone it's maude the cat hello

1375
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:46,480
what is it are you scared of the rain it

1376
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:48,960
stopped for the moment

1377
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,880
yes moored you want to say hello to come

1378
00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:52,319
out

1379
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:54,480
do you want to say hello to everybody

1380
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:57,119
near the microphone and

1381
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:00,319
not a peep lord

1382
00:52:06,230 --> 00:52:03,040
all right hop down come on you want your

1383
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:06,240
dinner maybe she wants her breakfast

1384
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:08,079
no she's leapt up to the window to look

1385
00:52:11,270 --> 00:52:09,440
at the rain

1386
00:52:12,670 --> 00:52:11,280
thank you to those people who continue

1387
00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:12,680
to support the skeptic zone at

1388
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:15,920
skepticzone.tv via patreon or paypal

1389
00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:18,880
it's amazing how lots of little

1390
00:52:22,790 --> 00:52:20,720
contributions really add up

1391
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:22,800
to help support the show and keep it

1392
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:25,280
going and buy cat food from time to time

1393
00:52:29,510 --> 00:52:26,640
i think

1394
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:29,520
yes all right you you sit up there and

1395
00:52:33,510 --> 00:52:30,000
watch

1396
00:52:35,510 --> 00:52:33,520
i'll finish the show okay

1397
00:52:36,870 --> 00:52:35,520
i must have the studio doors open there

1398
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:36,880
you go

1399
00:52:40,549 --> 00:52:38,319
and thank you to those people who've

1400
00:52:42,630 --> 00:52:40,559
just come on board to help support the

1401
00:52:44,470 --> 00:52:42,640
skeptic zone another way you might be

1402
00:52:46,630 --> 00:52:44,480
able to support the skeptic zone if you

1403
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:46,640
go to skepticzone.tv and scroll to the

1404
00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:47,760
bottom of the page

1405
00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:50,480
there's a link to a new uh series of

1406
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:52,240
origami photographs i've put up at the

1407
00:52:56,309 --> 00:52:53,760
site called pickfaire

1408
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:56,319
which means you can purchase uh digital

1409
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:57,280
prints

1410
00:53:01,349 --> 00:52:59,920
or digital copies of some of my origami

1411
00:53:01,750 --> 00:53:01,359
pictures you might want to check them

1412
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:01,760
out

1413
00:53:05,829 --> 00:53:04,400
there are some for free i've put some up

1414
00:53:07,829 --> 00:53:05,839
on wiki

1415
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:07,839
commons there so anyone can download

1416
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:09,599
those and use those to your heart's

1417
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:10,640
content

1418
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:13,040
but i've put many more up on this site

1419
00:53:15,870 --> 00:53:14,160
called pickfaire anyway

1420
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:15,880
check it out at the bottom of

1421
00:53:19,829 --> 00:53:17,520
skepticzone.tv

1422
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:19,839
thank you to lara benham for reminding

1423
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:20,800
me

1424
00:53:25,589 --> 00:53:23,040
that you can still upload your

1425
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:25,599
coronavirus conspiracy photographs and

1426
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,880
other nonsense

1427
00:53:30,710 --> 00:53:29,040
concerned with coronavirus via the link

1428
00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:30,720
at skeptics and tv

1429
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:33,920
the link is in each week's show notes

1430
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:36,800
uh corona conspiracy.cloud that's the

1431
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:38,480
website have a look at that and you can

1432
00:53:42,309 --> 00:53:40,720
check out all the wacky conspiracy

1433
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:42,319
theories and bad

1434
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:44,559
medical advice people from around the

1435
00:53:47,190 --> 00:53:46,079
world have been uploading to that

1436
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:47,200
website

1437
00:53:51,790 --> 00:53:50,079
a valuable resource for anyone doing

1438
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:51,800
stories on quackery and

1439
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:54,880
coronavirus on next week's show i hope

1440
00:53:58,870 --> 00:53:56,400
to bring you

1441
00:54:00,309 --> 00:53:58,880
a very important interview probably one

1442
00:54:02,710 --> 00:54:00,319
of the most important interviews

1443
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:02,720
i've done on the skeptic zone i hope to

1444
00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:04,160
interview my dear friend

1445
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:07,280
siobhan who has a story to tell

1446
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:10,319
about her uh

1447
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:12,800
what's the word fight i don't think is

1448
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:15,040
quite the right word though it might be

1449
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:18,319
her experiences her story

1450
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:21,599
with ovarian cancer

1451
00:54:25,349 --> 00:54:23,520
siobhan i've known for some years now

1452
00:54:28,150 --> 00:54:25,359
she started the

1453
00:54:29,109 --> 00:54:28,160
knowing animals podcast all about animal

1454
00:54:30,710 --> 00:54:29,119
welfare

1455
00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:30,720
she's been a guest on the show before

1456
00:54:35,349 --> 00:54:32,800
but right now she has a very different

1457
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:35,359
and important a very important story to

1458
00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:36,319
tell

1459
00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:39,119
so hopefully i can bring that to you on

1460
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:40,720
the next episode

1461
00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:44,640
which will be episode 650

1462
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:47,359
and so that's a milestone just in itself

1463
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:49,599
also in the trove segment on the next

1464
00:54:52,470 --> 00:54:50,559
episode

1465
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:52,480
we look at references in the australian

1466
00:54:56,470 --> 00:54:53,760
papers to

1467
00:54:57,510 --> 00:54:56,480
harry houdini the famous escape artist

1468
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:57,520
and

1469
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:00,400
noted skeptic but for this week with

1470
00:55:04,069 --> 00:55:02,079
maud the cat

1471
00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:04,079
still looking at me in the corner this

1472
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:05,839
is richard saunders signing off

1473
00:55:16,309 --> 00:55:14,789
you've been listening to the skeptic

1474
00:55:18,829 --> 00:55:16,319
zone podcast

1475
00:55:20,870 --> 00:55:18,839
please visit our website at

1476
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:20,880
www.skepticzone

1477
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:23,920
for show notes contacts and to access

1478
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:25,920
the back catalog of episodes

1479
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:29,440
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1480
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:31,520
skeptic zone podcast on twitter

1481
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:34,960
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1482
00:55:39,910 --> 00:55:38,559
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1483
00:55:43,109 --> 00:55:39,920
support the skeptic zone

1484
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:43,119
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1485
00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:43,920
podcast

1486
00:55:48,549 --> 00:55:46,799
is an independent production the views

1487
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:48,559
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1488
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:49,040
zone

1489
00:55:52,230 --> 00:55:51,040
are not necessarily those of australian

1490
00:56:04,390 --> 00:55:52,240
skeptics or

1491
00:56:08,390 --> 00:56:07,829
oh all right stop giggling all you

1492
00:56:10,549 --> 00:56:08,400
people

1493
00:56:12,309 --> 00:56:10,559
sorry i'm sorry my my friends out there

1494
00:56:14,069 --> 00:56:12,319
this is the end of the show this is the

1495
00:56:16,309 --> 00:56:14,079
afterthoughts the dice game and i've got

1496
00:56:18,789 --> 00:56:16,319
a giggling bunch of skeptics from all

1497
00:56:20,789 --> 00:56:18,799
over the north american continent we're

1498
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:20,799
actually doing the uh prediction project

1499
00:56:25,510 --> 00:56:22,319
we're continuing with that

1500
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:25,520
we've just cracked the 400 to go mark

1501
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:28,799
yes and

1502
00:56:32,309 --> 00:56:30,640
we've been looking at the career of

1503
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:32,319
leighton hugh at the tennis player today

1504
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:34,240
but i thought it's time to play the dice

1505
00:56:36,069 --> 00:56:34,640
game

1506
00:56:37,589 --> 00:56:36,079
so for those of you don't know i've got

1507
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:37,599
a ten sided die i'm just holding it up

1508
00:56:42,230 --> 00:56:39,839
to the camera so all my friends can see

1509
00:56:44,230 --> 00:56:42,240
lovely sort of blue one i'm gonna roll

1510
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:44,240
this three times maybe four times

1511
00:56:48,549 --> 00:56:47,040
and you have to use your psychic powers

1512
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,559
or your dumb luck or

1513
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:50,240
and are you are you using the dice

1514
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:52,240
machine that is rolling i am let me hold

1515
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:53,599
it up so you can see my dice

1516
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:55,440
rolling machine ouch just fell on my

1517
00:56:58,710 --> 00:56:56,880
finger there it is

1518
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:58,720
and are you going to again attempt to do

1519
00:57:00,630 --> 00:57:00,240
carl sagan's voice when you give us the

1520
00:57:04,069 --> 00:57:00,640
numbers

1521
00:57:07,430 --> 00:57:05,829
the answer will be five you're gonna

1522
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:07,440
have five five all right

1523
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:10,799
all right all right yes one four nine

1524
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:13,440
i think three one four oh oh oh so

1525
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:14,240
you're you're

1526
00:57:21,670 --> 00:57:17,520
giving all three numbers in one hit

1527
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:21,680
wow i think it's gonna be 31 46 92.

1528
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:23,520
how many times is he gonna roll up

1529
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:25,359
that's right well let me let me do let

1530
00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:26,880
me okay he's gonna roll it three times

1531
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:27,839
maybe four

1532
00:57:31,589 --> 00:57:30,160
here's the first number so what what

1533
00:57:34,150 --> 00:57:31,599
number susan five

1534
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:34,160
five five four girls they can tell me

1535
00:57:38,829 --> 00:57:35,040
call six

1536
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:42,309
nine oh no they again

1537
00:57:45,829 --> 00:57:45,440
right carl next number ready what number

1538
00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:45,839
do

1539
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:49,280
one

1540
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:53,680
nine again nine here it comes

1541
00:57:59,349 --> 00:57:57,040
two oh come on you

1542
00:58:00,950 --> 00:57:59,359
anybody say two i've got six people in

1543
00:58:06,870 --> 00:58:00,960
front of me come on next one

1544
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:13,109
one

1545
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:15,109
this is a bad connection just for you

1546
00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:16,799
i'll do a supplementary so one more

1547
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:18,000
number come on come on

1548
00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:21,119
five ten four five three

1549
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:31,670
i'm holding it up so you can all see

1550
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:39,910
it's a five it's a susan

1551
00:58:42,950 --> 00:58:41,510
thank you everybody let's get back to

1552
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:42,960
those predictions